اللغة الانجليزية Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand - الصفحة 375 - ملتقى طلاب وطالبات جامعة الملك فيصل,جامعة الدمام

J A M I L A H · 2011- 1- 21

اقتباس:

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة لارا

وش ادعي ياربي وش اقول

سيدني درايدن ارسطو وبلاتو يعني وش اقول الله ياخذكم انتوا ميتين خالصين

بحريقه طيب انتوا كافرين بعد هالدعوه ماتنفع لكم

looooooooooooooooooooool

Simply Go to Hell

آسستغفر آلله مع آني مآ آحب ذآ الكلمه بس من اللي عشته هالويكند

clever girl · 2011- 1- 21

بنات جا سؤال في الاختبار الشهري عن kind of tragedy مادري وشو ماعرفت احله وشو جوابه؟؟؟؟؟
اخاف تجيبه

رحلة عمر · 2011- 1- 21

"The Republic" by Plato (The theory of imitation)

poetry is an imitation of an imitation of the real truth.Poetry is Thrice removed
from truth .God-maker-imitator

, Is this an argument? No
because we have only one point of view given to us from Plato's point
of view. Although he is using argumentative style of questioning and answering, but he is not using the proper argumentative methods, he is
not applying, he is just making use of it to prove his own point of view

Plato gives an example of the bed and the table. Any bed or table starts by an original idea that comes at a person who starts giving a shape to the idea in his mind. Of course there are so many shapes but the original idea is something made of any material for someone to sleep on. At the beginning they made it of stone then it was developed using straw, wood, metal …

But the idea of having something raised from the ground for a person to sleep on is the original idea of the bed that was sent by a god to a man who started to give it a form.

For art they thought the muse didn't carry only the ideas but what beyond them, the words the colors in painting. This is what we call god and maker.

► Which poetry Plato didn't banish from his Republic?

Poetry has a strong effect on people and it is affecting the majority not only the simple minded people. He said at the very end that he is not against poetry as poetry but he is against the effect of poetry on people.
Having a powerful effect is not only made by love poetry but it is made by all kinds of poetry. There was another kind of poetry at that time called the religious or divine poetry that was glorifying deeds of the gods and goddesses. He didn't banish that kind of poetry from his Republic.

He said that most of the people could not understand correctly, so why would we have it for the minority? It's better to banish it. So he was against poetry because of its power, because he himself was a poet and turned to be a philosopher.

**
He speaks about the rational principle of the soul:

1- the superior part is the mind, the reason and 2- the inferior part is heart and emotions and what part is poetry addressing at the end? It is addressing the inferior part of the soul. They are far removed from reality, they don't have a name and they don't teach.

**
Why poetry should be banished from Plato's ideal society or Republic?
1- Plato considered all arts are only imitating appearance not reality and they are three times away from reality. Because of that, poetry should be banished from his ideal society.

2- Plato thinks that the user is more beneficial than the artist. We have 1- god, 2- the maker, 3- the user, and 4- the artist from the point of view of the utility; that's why this was the second reason he banished poetry from his Republic.

3- Even when the audience receives poetry, the mind is unconscious. So it is addressing the inferior part of the soul, so the outcome will be more inferior. He said it is like an inferior marrying an inferior, so the children will be more inferior. This is another reason for banishing poetry from ideal society.

4- Poetry as Plato sees is full of lies because it's only imitation of appearance. This means that the poet is lying and because it's full of lies, so we cannot accept it in ideal society.

ريم خان · 2011- 1- 21

acheivment of discovery؟؟؟

بنات المقصود فيه تعريفه وانواعه

ThE lEgEnD · 2011- 1- 21

طب بنات عندي سؤال بخصوص ايون
الشاعر اين يقف؟؟ وين مكانه هل بالمرتبه الثانيه او الثاله؟

الشاعر بالمرتبه الثانيه
god=poet=rhapsode

والسؤال الثاني ان بنظريه التقليد حقت افلاطون بكتابه العاشر ...
افلاطون قال لو حطينا هومر بالمرتبه الثانيه.
....>>>>طيب ؟ وش بيصير ؟؟

انوه وظيفه الشاعر مالها فايده والاهم منه هو user

ThE lEgEnD · 2011- 1- 21

اقتباس:

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة ريم خان

acheivment of discovery؟؟؟

بنات المقصود فيه تعريفه وانواعه

يمككن المقصود كيف نوصل للديسكوفري
تقوليين عن طريق الانواع حقتها ولا ماانع تحطين التعريف

عسولة الشرقية · 2011- 1- 21

اقتباس:

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة the legend

بنات للي عجزانه تقرا حقت سدني ولا شي لقيت هاذا اختصار له ويوضح لكــ البارت 2

stephen gossen makes charges on poetry which sidney answers.
the charges are:
1. Poetry is the waste of time.
2. Poetry is mother of lies.
3. It is nurse of abuse.
3. Plato had rightly banished the poets from his ideal world.
against these charges, sidney has answered them in the following ways-
poetry is the source of knowledge and a civilizing force, for sidney. Gossoon attacks on poetry saying that it corrupts the people and it is the waste of time, but sidney says that no learning is so good as that which teaches and moves to virtue and that nothing can both teach and amuse so much as poetry does. In essay societies, poetry was the main source of education. He remembers ancient greek society that respected poets. The poets are always to be looked up. So, poetry is not wasted of time.
to the second charge, sidney answers that poet does not lie because he never affirms that his fiction is true and can never lie. The poetic truths are ideal and universal. Therefore, poetry cannot be a mother of lies.
sidney rejects that poetry is the source of abuses. To him, it is people who abuses poetry, not the vice- versa. Abuses are more nursed by philosophy and history than by poetry, by describing battles, bloodshed, violence etc. On the contrary, poetry helps to maintain morality and peace by avoiding such violence and bloodsheds. Moreover it brings light to knowledge.
sidney views that plato in his republic wanted to banish the abuse of poetry not the poets. He himself was not free from poeticality, which we can find in his dialogues. Plato never says that all poets should be banished. He called for banishing only those poets who are inferior and unable to instruct the children.
for sidney, art is the imitation of nature but it is not slavish imitation as plato views. Rather it is creative imitation. Nature is dull, incomplete and ugly. It is artists who turn dull nature in to golden color. He employs his creative faculty, imagination and style of presentation to decorate the raw materials of nature. For sidney, art is a speaking picture having spatiotemporal dimension. For aristotle human action is more important but for sidney nature is important.
artists are to create arts considering the level of readers. The only purpose of art is to teach and delight like the whole tendency of renaissance. Sidney favors poetic justice that is possible in poet's world where good are rewarded and wicked people are punished.
plato's philosophy on ' virtue' is worthless at the battlefield but poet teaches men how to behave under all circumstances. Moral philosophy teaches virtues through abstract examples and history teaches virtues through concrete examples but both are defective. Poetry teaches virtue by example as well as by percept (blend of abstract + concrete). The poet creates his own world where he gives only the inspiring things and thus poetry holds its superior position to that of philosophy and history.
in the poet's golden world, heroes are ideally presented and evils are corrupt. Didactic effect of a poem depends up on the poet's power to move. It depends up on the affective quality of poetry. Among the different forms of poetry like lyric, elegy, satire, comedy etc. Epic is the best form as it portrays heroic deeds and inspires heroic deeds and inspires people to become courageous and patriotic.

in this way, sidney defines all the charges against poetry and stands for the sake of universal and timeless quality of poetry making us know why the poets are universal genius.

ثواني ثواني ثواني

مو ستيفن قوسون قال اتهامات ثانيه!!!!!! هذي الاتهامات هي الي خلت سدني يكتب الكتاب

منها انه الشعراء انمي اوف فيرتشو وان الي يمثلون بالمسرحيات باقن مالهم رب وان الميوزك والتراجيدي تخلي الناس يصيحون فيصيرون زي الحريم .. الخ

والاربعه الي فوق هم اتهامات كريتيكز (نقاد بس ما قال اسمهم )

ولا انا غلطانه

J A M I L A H · 2011- 1- 21

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

صح عليج عسوله

Gossin wrote an article attacking poetry, basing his attack on Plato’s attack.

هذا سبب التاليف ..

وهذي مجرد آكيوسيشنز رد عليها بمؤلفه ..~

( هذآ اللي فهمه عقلي البشري )

جسد · 2011- 1- 21

توى خلصت سيدني واحسه قرايه
وببداء بدريدون تهقون احل بكره
ولا اهون ماروح

هم ماتوا وحنا نبتلش فيهم

شتاء عمري · 2011- 1- 21

جسد توكلي على الله وروحي

اذكر العام الله بس قريت ربع المنهج واحس الاسئله كانت سهله بس لاني ماذكرت
مانجحت

2011- 1- 21	#3742
clever girl أكـاديـمـي ذهـبـي الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 53796 تاريخ التسجيل: Mon Jul 2010 المشاركات: 765 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 121 مؤشر المستوى: 65 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كلية الاداب الدراسة: انتظام التخصص: English المستوى: ماجستير	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand بنات جا سؤال في الاختبار الشهري عن kind of tragedy مادري وشو ماعرفت احله وشو جوابه؟؟؟؟؟ اخاف تجيبه

2011- 1- 21	#3743
رحلة عمر أكـاديـمـي ذهـبـي الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 17627 تاريخ التسجيل: Fri Jan 2009 المشاركات: 923 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 329 مؤشر المستوى: 73 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كلية الاداب بالدمام الدراسة: انتظام التخصص: English literature المستوى: المستوى الخامس	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand "The Republic" by Plato (The theory of imitation) poetry is an imitation of an imitation of the real truth.Poetry is Thrice removed from truth .God-maker-imitator , Is this an argument? No because we have only one point of view given to us from Plato's point of view. Although he is using argumentative style of questioning and answering, but he is not using the proper argumentative methods, he is not applying, he is just making use of it to prove his own point of view Plato gives an example of the bed and the table. Any bed or table starts by an original idea that comes at a person who starts giving a shape to the idea in his mind. Of course there are so many shapes but the original idea is something made of any material for someone to sleep on. At the beginning they made it of stone then it was developed using straw, wood, metal … But the idea of having something raised from the ground for a person to sleep on is the original idea of the bed that was sent by a god to a man who started to give it a form. For art they thought the muse didn't carry only the ideas but what beyond them, the words the colors in painting. This is what we call god and maker. ► Which poetry Plato didn't banish from his Republic? Poetry has a strong effect on people and it is affecting the majority not only the simple minded people. He said at the very end that he is not against poetry as poetry but he is against the effect of poetry on people. Having a powerful effect is not only made by love poetry but it is made by all kinds of poetry. There was another kind of poetry at that time called the religious or divine poetry that was glorifying deeds of the gods and goddesses. He didn't banish that kind of poetry from his Republic. He said that most of the people could not understand correctly, so why would we have it for the minority? It's better to banish it. So he was against poetry because of its power, because he himself was a poet and turned to be a philosopher. He speaks about the rational principle of the soul: 1- the superior part is the mind, the reason and 2- the inferior part is heart and emotions and what part is poetry addressing at the end? It is addressing the inferior part of the soul. They are far removed from reality, they don't have a name and they don't teach. Why poetry should be banished from Plato's ideal society or Republic? 1- Plato considered all arts are only imitating appearance not reality and they are three times away from reality. Because of that, poetry should be banished from his ideal society. 2- Plato thinks that the user is more beneficial than the artist. We have 1- god, 2- the maker, 3- the user, and 4- the artist from the point of view of the utility; that's why this was the second reason he banished poetry from his Republic. 3- Even when the audience receives poetry, the mind is unconscious. So it is addressing the inferior part of the soul, so the outcome will be more inferior. He said it is like an inferior marrying an inferior, so the children will be more inferior. This is another reason for banishing poetry from ideal society. 4- Poetry as Plato sees is full of lies because it's only imitation of appearance. This means that the poet is lying and because it's full of lies, so we cannot accept it in ideal society.

2011- 1- 21	#3744
ريم خان أكـاديـمـي فـعّـال الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 52454 تاريخ التسجيل: Sun Jun 2010 المشاركات: 224 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 50 مؤشر المستوى: 60 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كليه الاداب با الدمام الدراسة: انتساب التخصص: انجليزي المستوى: المستوى السابع	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand acheivment of discovery؟؟؟ بنات المقصود فيه تعريفه وانواعه

2011- 1- 21	#3745
ThE lEgEnD أكـاديـمـي ألـمـاسـي الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 7441 تاريخ التسجيل: Tue Jul 2008 المشاركات: 1,623 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 5069 مؤشر المستوى: 87 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كلية الآدآب للبنات بالدمام الدراسة: انتظام التخصص: Englishiano0o المستوى: المستوى السابع	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand طب بنات عندي سؤال بخصوص ايون الشاعر اين يقف؟؟ وين مكانه هل بالمرتبه الثانيه او الثاله؟ الشاعر بالمرتبه الثانيه god=poet=rhapsode والسؤال الثاني ان بنظريه التقليد حقت افلاطون بكتابه العاشر ... افلاطون قال لو حطينا هومر بالمرتبه الثانيه. ....>>>>طيب ؟ وش بيصير ؟؟ انوه وظيفه الشاعر مالها فايده والاهم منه هو user
	التعديل الأخير تم بواسطة ThE lEgEnD ; 2011- 1- 21 الساعة 09:11 PM

2011- 1- 21	#3748
J A M I L A H مشرفة عامة سابقاً الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 3815 تاريخ التسجيل: Tue Feb 2008 العمر: 34 المشاركات: 8,350 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 89436 مؤشر المستوى: 239 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: Abroad <\3 الدراسة: غير طالب التخصص: Eng. المستوى: دراسات عليا	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ صح عليج عسوله Gossin wrote an article attacking poetry, basing his attack on Plato’s attack. هذا سبب التاليف .. وهذي مجرد آكيوسيشنز رد عليها بمؤلفه ..~ ( هذآ اللي فهمه عقلي البشري )

2011- 1- 21	#3749
جسد أكـاديـمـي فـعّـال الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 65566 تاريخ التسجيل: Sun Nov 2010 المشاركات: 331 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 63 مؤشر المستوى: 59 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كليه الاداب بالدمام الدراسة: انتظام التخصص: أدب انجليزي المستوى: المستوى الخامس	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand توى خلصت سيدني واحسه قرايه وببداء بدريدون تهقون احل بكره ولا اهون ماروح هم ماتوا وحنا نبتلش فيهم

2011- 1- 21	#3750
شتاء عمري أكـاديـمـي ألـمـاسـي الملف الشخصي: رقم العضوية : 45978 تاريخ التسجيل: Tue Jan 2010 المشاركات: 1,283 الـجنــس : أنـثـى عدد الـنقـاط : 148 مؤشر المستوى: 71 بيانات الطالب: الكلية: كليه الاداب بالدمام الدراسة: انتظام التخصص: English المستوى: المستوى السابع	رد: Third Year's Students Come Here To Be One Hand جسد توكلي على الله وروحي اذكر العام الله بس قريت ربع المنهج واحس الاسئله كانت سهله بس لاني ماذكرت مانجحت

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